This is a discussion on EPO in emergencies. within the Transfusion Alternatives forum; I was told that EPO was of no use in emergency surgery as it took ...
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EPO in emergencies.
I was told that EPO was of no use in emergency surgery as it took too long for it to have any effect on the patient.
Does anyone have any experience of this and can anyone tell me how long EPO takes to start working when it is given in an emergency situation (non-elective surgery). Does it start to work on an incremental basis or is there a sudden "kick"? What is the timeline for this? Any input would be appreciated. Nanuke wrote: epo / timing In regard to epo / timing / and emergency use. The answer isn't as easy as you would like. My usual explanation is this. If this is acute blood loss issue, e.g. GI Bleed or hemorrhage; not the epo won't do anything until you refill the iron tank (my expression). I am not sure what Sodium Ferric Gluconate is marketed under in the UK but we are restricted her in the US in regard to its dosing. Once it is available to administer in an easier format it would be the drug of choice. The fastest we have been able to administer it is 125mg / daily times or equal to a total of 1gm. For example; If you witnessed or know that the patients acute blood loss was 1 liter, there is no reason to even check Iron Saturation levels (need to have a minimum of 20% for rhEpo to even work in a semi reasonable time frame). That patient will have to have a total of 1 gm and at the 500 mg mark would be a guess as to whether he is ready for epo or not. Here is the point. If you have a center that does epo levels in less than 3 days like our, (and there is much debate in the literature about this) and you know they are in otherwise general good health (meaning no cardiac, oncology, or nephrology issue) and they have a level of 190 or higher epo level===they DO NOT NEED rhEpo. They NEED IRON. The only IV iron in the US that can do a one time load dose is Infed (Iron Dextran). If the patient is premedicated with Diphenhydromine and or Solu-medrol the allergic reaction potential drops significantly. I apologize....as Jan can tell you I tend to talk far too much about this and love it.....feel free to send me an email anytime in regard to this subject. Trudi Gallagher RN. Would anyone like to add to this please? In particular I would like to know whether EPO is of any use in an emergency situation when the patient has refused blood products. Details: Road Traffic Accident victim. Male 17yrs. Height 5'10". Weight 140lbs. Closed fractures to femur, tibia and fibula of R leg. No other injuries. Usual blood tests done on admission. Hb 14.0. All other tests within accepted parameters. Refused blood (JW). No other health problems. Crash happened 8pm. Admitted to A&E at 9pm. Approx Blood loss estimated as 2litres by 11pm. Operated on to reduce fractures 00:15am. (By which time Hb was 2.0) Treatment before op: 7litres fluids IV. Died 06.30 (Severe dilutional anaemia). My question is: would EPO or Iron dextran (or anything else) have been of any use? I am not in the medical profession so laymans terms would be appreciated. The patient was my son. |
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1. Life before limb, limberal use off tourniquet. Have the radiologic department to create an embolus in his limb to reduce the bleeding? In extremis I would considered a laparatomy with clamping the iliaca. 2. Restrictive use of fluids i.v. Accept a very low blood pressure. 3. Use of tranexamic acid! NovoSeven? This is an very complex and diffucult case and my comments are not any critics to the threatment your son recived.
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Dr Lukas MÃ¥nsson MD Drammen Norway |
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You have to known about the kinetics off Hb in acute blood loss. First when you have an acute blood loss you will have less blood but the blood will have the same Hb. Then there will be a dilatution of the blood. Then you will increase the blood volume but decrease the Hb.
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Dr Lukas MÃ¥nsson MD Drammen Norway |
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Plan for Life
Doctor Mansson gives a snapshot of trauma treatment. The goal is simply survival. Without life there is no need to consider future treatment modalities.
The problem: Are there things we can do during or soon after the critical stabilization phase that will have a positive and possible life-saving result when the patient reaches ICU? - Yes. After stabilizing the patient can the trauma specialist work with the intensivist to begin a more future-looking treatment plan? Certainly. In fact an algorithm can be designed and implemented to facilitate the transition from trauma to intensive or acute care. In the case of extreme blood loss the algorithm would include blood building measures such as IV Iron and EPO. There can be a critical delay in treatment as the patient makes the transition from the Emergency Department to the next phase of care. Since EPO takes several days to effect a change in status the sooner it starts the better. However, EPO isn't the only treatment option possible. Phasing longer term treatments into the care path ASAP is important in maintaining continuity of care. Summary: Obviously the main focus of the trauma team is saving and stabilizing the patient. However once the patient is sufficiently stable a treatment plan including the use of EPO and IV Iron when appropriate should begin. Order sets can be created to facilitate the transition from ER to ICU. This will insure continuity in the care of the patient.
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Mr. Jan B. Wade Blood Management Consultant Enhance Outcomes - Control Cost For Information Call - 360 296-1807
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